This is Part Two of our analysis of the most anti-Orthodox interview in history by an Orthodox hierarch. See Part 1 Archbishop Elpidophoros of the Greek Archdiocese is Pro-Choice on Abortion.
It is very important that no one mistakes the opinions of this Archbishop as actual Orthodoxy.
Q. You received homophobic attacks following the baptism in Glyfada. But the Holy Synod of Greece also sent a letter of protest to you and to the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Can we speak of two “classes” of children in the Church: a “privileged” one and a “lesser” one？
If this were my interview, I would have first taken great offense at the use of the term “homophobia” in the question. I would have made the interviewer restate the question in a neutral way before giving any answer. The loaded term “homophobia” is used to suggest that any opposition to homosexuality is irrational, driven simply by fear and/or prejudice. The term “homophobia” should never be used in an Orthodox Christian context as it is not applicable. Elpidophoros skips right past the use of this word without comment or challenge. That is the same as endorsing its use, along with everything that usage implies.
A: Our Christian faith teaches that God loves all His children and does not separate them by means of any criteria whatsoever.
Of course God loves all His children. But as for separating them? God’s children separate themselves. Sinners who refuse to repent separate themselves from the Church and from God. Those who teach heresy do likewise. This question is about “married” homosexuals who conceived children using surrogate mothers. They are in deep sin, and are harming innocent children who, having been conceived in an unnatural manner, are being denied the love and care of their own mothers. This can never be excused or endorsed by the Church in any way. God does love the sinners, and the innocent children, but avoiding the truth is not helping anyone.
It is perhaps not well known, but the Church does not deny—and, in the case of an infant, cannot deny—the Holy Sacrament of Baptism to anyone. I would even say that the Holy Sacrament of Baptism is the ultimate mystery of God’s absolute grace. How can we block a child’s access to God’s infinite mercy? Even the Holy Synod of the Church of Greece recognized this in the letter which you say was sent to the Ecumenical Patriarchate. In this particular case, the tension emerged because the Church was again called upon to choose between “being” and “appearing.”
Baptism is initiation into the life of the Orthodox Church. For adults, Baptism is preceded by months of catechism classes to prepare them to live as Orthodox Christians. For children, Baptism is celebrated in the expectation that they will be raised by practicing Orthodox Christians who will impart the Orthodox Faith through a godly homelife and regular participation in the Divine Liturgy. The godparents, themselves assumed to be Orthodox Christians in good standing, will also participate in the spiritual formation of the children.
Below are the requirements for child baptism, for parents and godparents, pulled from the Website of a local parish of the Greek Archdiocese. Based on these requirements, is Archbishop Elpidophoros correct that Baptism can never be denied to an infant?
Elpidophoros threw out all the rules in order to make this travesty happen. The children baptized were born of surrogate mothers to two “married” homosexual “dads” who are, by definition of their lifestyle, cut off from the Orthodox Church. Of the two “Godmothers”, one was not even a baptized Orthodox Christian. Who will teach these children the Orthodox Faith? How can they participate regularly in the Divine Liturgy, when their own “dads” are excluded from communion because of their sin?
By this one act, Elpidophoros seemingly justified every criticism that Evangelicals have ever made concerning infant baptism within Orthodoxy. Evangelicals frequently accuse the Orthodox of thinking that Baptism is some kind of magical event that guarantees salvation. It seems Elpidophoros believes that as well. Will their Baptisms really sustain these children, even if they are raised completely outside the Church?
From an Orthodox perspective, the answer is “no”. As any Orthodox Christian knows, the efficacy of one’s Baptism can be lost through our own sin. If you are not living the life of an Orthodox Christian, then your Baptism is of no avail.
In the interview, Elpidophoros actually says that withholding Baptism denies a child God’s absolute grace and blocks a child’s access to God’s infinite mercy. Does that mean that unbaptized children who die go to Hell? Are innocent children, who are unbaptized, not able to receive God’s protection? If we will baptize any baby, and the babies are that much in need of it, then why not offer mass baby baptisms at Greek Festivals all over the country? Does that sound insane? Because it is. Why baptize babies into the Orthodox Faith who will not be raised in the Orthodox Church? Especially since the inevitable apostasy of these children will be to the spiritual detriment of all who participated in such mockeries – parents, clergy, and godparents alike.
Perhaps Orthodox norms didn’t apply in this case because both the money and the ideological statement involved were more important to the Archbishop?
This complete fiasco of a baptism, and the Archbishop’s justifications for it, will be thrown in our faces for years by Protestant and Roman Catholic apologists alike. It will confuse those Orthodox Christians who lack knowledge of the Faith. Unless soundly repudiated, this is the kind of compromise with the world that can eventually introduce heresy into the canonical Church, potentially even resulting in a loss of the Orthodox Faith in the Greek Archdiocese.
And that is not all.
Through his actions, Elpidophoros also embraced surrogate motherhood, a practice which all right-thinking Orthodox find abhorrent. Lawmakers in Russia have been trying to ban the practice as a type of slavery, turning as it does both women and babies into commodities to be bought and sold. Here are excerpts from one article about the proposed ban from the perspective of the Church:
Draft law on prohibition of surrogate motherhood was submitted to the State Duma on Monday. “Using a surrogate motherhood technology is a choice of parents. The Church cannot support such choice, since it believes that surrogate motherhood humiliates human dignity and is a morally dubious technology of reproductive health,” said Mr Kipshidze.
According to Kipshidze, surrogate new-born babies are not at all worse or better than other children. However, the Church can baptize them only after the repentance of those who made a decision on such a non-traditional birth of a child.
“This position is connected with the fact that parents wishing to have their child baptized cannot but share a moral standpoint of the Church, which considers such reproductive choice to be morally unacceptable,” explained the interviewee.
He also noted particularly that in the event of life threat to a newborn, he/she can be baptized without any delay or compliance with any preliminary terms.
The Church believes if a husband or a wife is infertile, they have to accept their childlessness with humbleness. In such cases spouses are recommended to think about fostering a child.
The only acceptable medical assistance in case of infertility, according to the Church, is artificial fertilization by the husband’s germ cells, since it “does not ruin the marriage integrity, makes just a slight difference from natural fertilization and takes place in the context of marital relationships.”
Notice that a child born of surrogacy can be baptized, but only after the repentance of the parents for participating in an unnatural act? Clearly the Russian Church does not share Elpidophoros’ zeal for indiscriminate baptism of infants. The homosexual “fathers” of the two children Elpidophoros baptized are very, very proud of themselves, their gay “marriage”, and their use of rented wombs for procreation. There is no repentance there. Also, did you notice, in the quote above, that surrogacy is illicit even for heterosexual couples?
Much focus has been placed on this scandalous baptism because the “parents” are homosexual. As bad as that is, the implicit endorsement of surrogacy by Archbishop Elpidophoros is actually a much bigger problem.
Surrogacy is the immoral conception of a child, through unnatural means, with the intent that the child will be denied the love of his or her own biological mother by design. Nothing could be crueler or more inhumane. It is the implicit denial of the biological reality that both a mother and a father are needed to create new life. It makes a mockery of the differences between the sexes, treating two “dads” in a home as being just as good as a normal family. Surrogacy is also an integral component of the Transhumanist movement – controlled pro-creation being essential for the future “directed” evolution of mankind.
In addition to embracing surrogacy, Elpidophoros also normalized homosexual parenting. How can we oppose gay adoption, for example, when a Greek hierarch in good standing just endorsed a family structure with two “dads”? Of course, it goes without saying that through his actions, Elpidophoros also put his personal approval on homosexual sex and so-called “same-sex” marriage.
To defend the Archbishop’s actions, multiple “Orthodox” progressives have come forward to argue that the most pro-family, and most traditional, Christian Church on the planet doesn’t support “family values”. The fall out from this will be ongoing for years. Progressives and Orthodox who are not strong in their knowledge of the Orthodox Faith might actually believe this nonsense.
The pro-homosexual crowd within Orthodoxy absolutely noticed the “shift” in Orthodox teaching lead by Elpidophoros concerning same-sex relationships and all that it entails.
Q: The Greek Prime Minister has pledged to legalize same-sex marriage. Do you agree with him?
A: Mr. Mitsos, let me quote the scriptural “Render to Caesar the things that belong to Caesar.” The Prime Minister has the knowledge and discernment to make decisions in a way that serves the Greek people in its entirety. The Church, of course, will express the faith, conviction, and tradition that it has expressed and practiced for ages.
Archbishop – what is the “faith, conviction, and tradition” that the Church has expressed and practiced for ages? Why would an Archbishop refer to the Church’s teaching on marriage, but not take the opportunity to explain it? Is it because the question has been “politicized”? That has never stopped Elpidophoros before. The Archbishop, in fact, is usually not at all shy about speaking up about the Ukrainian War, climate change, gun control, “equity”, “systemic racism”, and many other political topics. However, when it comes to the Greek government redefining marriage, Archbishop Elpidophoros suddenly wants to stay on the sidelines and let “Caesar” handle it? Why such reticence? Greek Orthodox Christians have the right to be heard as part of this process, do they not?
The issue, you know, is not that the Church understands things differently to the state or a section of the population. The issue lies in the process and reasoning whereby the Church deliberates and decides. As hierarchs today, we cannot groundlessly insist on things, expressing opinions or issuing decisions without any explanation. In today’s world, it is not enough to publish public “affirmations” or “statements” regarding the teaching of the Gospel, while ignoring the severe criticism from those who disagree or seek to hold a conversation with us. Dialogue with other points of view has always helped the Church to deepen its understanding of the Gospel’s teaching, while at the same time compelling it to speak the language of every generation and avoiding marginalization. As our Patriarch said recently: “In authentic dialogue, there are no losers.”
In fact, I would add that, today, we theologians cannot support our views by looking to the past alone, however sacred and mighty it may be. We should also respect contemporary developments in science, medicine, and psychology. And it is a great blessing and a great advantage that experienced clergy-physicians and theologian-psychologists serve the Church today.
The Orthodox Faith is God’s own self-revelation. The Orthodox Faith was not invented by men, but was given to us by God. The Church is the “ground and pillar” of the truth of this Faith. Just as Jesus is the same yesterday and today, so is the Deposit of the Faith. If this is not true, then the Orthodox Church is false and we should all find another way to spend our Sunday mornings. But if Orthodoxy is true (which it is), then Orthodox hierarchs have not only the authority but also the duty to defend and articulate the “Faith once delivered to the saints”, including the Church’s teachings on sexual morality.
Archbishop Elpidophoros does not want to defend the Orthodox teaching on marriage, so he pretends that new circumstances in the world prevent him from doing so. Times have changed, so he says, and he can’t just repeat historical Orthodox teaching. Others might not like it. We have to “dialogue” now with those who disagree with God. How that helps Orthodoxy is anyone’s guess. Throughout all these “dialogues”, it seems that only the Orthodox side ever compromises itself. The anti-Orthodox never change their positions or their demands on anything. The Greek Prime Minister is most certainly not “dialoguing”. The Greek Prime Minister has an already made-up mind and is trying to achieve a political outcome that will transform Greek society, while making the Global Elite happy as well.
Nor will “same-sex” marriage be the end of this “evolution”. A New York judge has already found a “right” to legal protections for polyamorous relationships. This will spread to any nation that redefines marriage from the traditional norm. Here’s looking at you Greece in a few years, if you follow America’s lead into this nightmare.
It should be clear to everyone that Archbishop Elpidophoros supports same-sex marriage. He does not even want to articulate the teaching of the Church on real marriage, much less defend it. Archbishop Elpidophoros appears to hope that endless “dialogue” on same-sex marriage will eventually afford him the opportunity to embrace such perversity fully and publicly. This is especially clear as he mentions “contemporary developments in science, medicine, and psychology.” This is typical language for progressive “Orthodox” Christians looking to introduce same-sex marriage into the Orthodox Church. According to their way of thinking, sexual orientation is innate (like skin color), so denying same-sex “marriage” is unacceptable discrimination. Of course, these are the same people who teach that actual biological sex is infinitely mutable, while physical attraction to men or women is immutable. A boy can become a girl, and a girl can become a boy, but you are born “gay” forever and the Church has to “modernize” to accept that fact. Follow the TheScience™!
What hogwash. No one has ever successfully changed his or her biological sex, but there are untold numbers of former homosexuals who can attest to the power of Christ to deliver us from our sins.
Archbishop Elpidophoros may reach a point where he feels comfortable fully “coming out of the closet” in support of same-sex marriage. Or, perhaps he will end up “backdooring” acceptance of same-sex marriage by gleefully complying with future “hate” / “discrimination” laws. After all, Archbishop Elpidophoros enthusiastically complied with all the “pandemic” government edicts, even going so far as to use Orthodox Theology to justify them. Why wouldn’t Archbishop Elpidophoros comply with edicts mandating the Church accept same-sex marriage or be fined / punished in some way? Especially since such laws would send him in the direction he already wanted to take the Church?
For a great discussion on same-sex marriage and the recent OCA pastoral statement on sexual morality, led by a repentant former homosexual convert from Catholicism to Orthodoxy, please click here.
Nicholas – member of the Western Rite Vicariate, a part of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese in America
If leaders in the GOA will ignore the Scriptures, do not argue with them says the Lord. Just dust off your shoes and go to a different church….that is the only way these heretics can be stopped.
Just read the Scriptures and the Words of Christ as quoted by his Apostles. That is the answer to world cultural norms. The more the GOA goes along with worldly values, the more such foolish souls will be exiting His Kingdom….He is the final judge…not human commentaries.
Again, our concepts of covenant can shed some light on things regarding marriage, same-sex marriage or even multiples.
Technically, any marriage license issued by a state is nothing more than a business contract. It was designed by the states so the state and fed could tap into family wealth through what is called “probate”. If it is nothing more than a business contract, any persons—any number of persons could enter such a contract by just having a lawyer draw one up, it’s just business. All issues are settled in civil court, not criminal.
And the business contract a marriage license is has nothing to do with where and who with people engage in sex.
While the verbiage on the contract says, “so-and-so is married to so-and-so” and that’s it. What does this mean? It means when they want to break up, neither has any control over their assets, but the government through the court has total control of the assets, but not their behavior (unless they break the criminal code).
That government issues a “marriage license” is nothing more than a RED HERRING. The marriage contract designed by the state is a demonstration that government is and has been turned into “big business”.
That the state offers a “license to marry” has absolutely no basis in reality, because any contract can be draw up regarding the ownership of anything with any number of parties. Most of the time, both parties have their name on the big things like houses and cars and if not the court can move things around hopefully in a way that is honorable.
Other than that, there really is no reason and for the rich, the best lawyer always wins regardless of any sense of fairness.
I know all this because I sold life insurance and the death benefit bypasses probate (and the tax man), because it is a contract that stands alone outside the marriage contract. Life insurance proceeds are never part of the estate unless no surviving beneficiary exists.
Life insurance is a contract between the policy owner and the insurance company, to pay to a named beneficiary, certain amount of money if the insured passes during the policy period. Because it is a contract it trumps marriage as a business contract.
The United States of America is a corporation—and had to be made such in order to incur debt. After the civil war, the US government approached European bankers for a loan—as I understand it, correct me if I’m wrong here. Their requirement was to turn America into a corporation to get the loan. They did that, the loan was issued.
Because American government is a business entity that sits in the chair of what used to be government, everything has been skewed as all the working of government have become the workings of business, and it relationships with other business entities.
(And you thought ownership of people stopped with the Emancipation Proclamation; no, it continues (Rev. 18:13) and is about to get worse)
How did we get here?
Previously, all our government had to do—back when it controlled the issuing of its own currency—was to print money with its own image. While this seems bad practice, at the time all money was backed by gold or silver. Even without that, many economists of the day said the way for government to pay its expenses was to print just enough money instead of leveeing taxes. This makes perfect sense, because as the economy grew, so did the cash supply and the government was not in debt to others than its constituents.
The debtor is ALWAYS the slave of the mortgagee—it’s in the Bible, therefore it must be so. Of course, the bankers knew that, and they wanted to control the printing of money. When America transferred the right of every government on the earth since the beginning of governments to print its own currency over to the fed, America INC started out in debt and has been ever sense.
When the gays were pushing for “gay marriage” I knew it had nothing to do with “love” and “family” because it’s just a financial contract none of them intended on keeping. Many gays said they did not want it, most gays are extremely promiscuous. No gay wants to pay for a divorce and lose half his assets every other month. The drive for gay marriage was a conspiracy between the gay community and government to destroy the “concept” of marriage among Christians, to make it look like marriage could be redefined for everybody. NOT SO.
Bottom line: marriage cannot be redefined unless it is the Church that does so. For the Church is not a business contract but a covenant within a Covenant (the Everlasting Covenant).
Gays do not marry unless they are in the spotlight, it’s all about perceptions.
BTW: Technically, any jurisdiction can print its own currency, even state, cities can do this. You are free to use monopoly money if you can find somebody to take it. It’s only a medium of exchange. This is why cyber money keeps popping up.
And of course, anybody can accept whatever form of payment they desire. If I sell in my garage sale items in exchange for graham crackers and milk, it’s nobody’s business and when government steps in to interfere with that, it is clearly they are NOT any form of valid government but a business using Mafia tactics to protect “the business” of government.
Here is how to undo all debt, and undo every string attached: change the medium of exchange; enshrine a new currency. (of course, they are about to do that, but so they can get more control as they cannot control cash).
Back to marriage as a business contract. The whole problem is about the verbiage and how it is being used. In other words, to government “marriage” is ALWAYS a business contract—every divorce is divvying up the assets. And of course, the custody of the kids because kids in the view of government are ASSETS. And if they think you are not raising them toward their best interest, they will send somebody out to get them; the kids are assets of the state.
But so are you nothing more than a business asset, because you pay taxes. This is why the whole thing is totally corrupt. This is why elections have been altered. But that we have elections is only a mirage to keep you oblivious to what they have done.
This is what is happening in Greece. Greece is a business in debt to world bankers and the bankers define how the Greeks run their business/government or they get foreclosed on. And nobody has the kahunas to force the issue and now it’s too late.
The closest the Greeks will ever come to freedom was when they threatened to go back to their old currency which would have canceled all debt, and removed them from the matrix, and taken their country back. I knew they would never be able to pull this off because, the bankers have long tentacles and not even Trump is beyond their control. If Trump got crossways with the globalists cabal, he’d be dead the next day just like Michael Jackson.
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This is how business/government by creating a concept that has no substantiation in reality, have taken over control—the business end of it anyway—by calling their business contract a “marriage license” confusing it with was Christian Marriage. This is how evil works; shows one thing but delivers something else.
God made marriage, God procured the first marriage when He brought the Woman (the name “Woman” reflects the creation [shared identity], “Eve” reflects the fall) to the man, Adam.
In summary: by adopting the name “marriage” for a business contract, government as a business has now defined marriage and family as business and as business they own it and will reach in and control it when it is in their interests to do so.
True marriage is a Church sacrament where two—a man and a woman enter into a COVENANT—not a contract. Bottom line: it makes NO difference what the government calls it, because they can only inforce what belongs to business, never morality. It’s always been that way. No priest should ever require a marriage license/contract to do the rites.
Like baptism, no jurisdiction necessarily accepts baptism from heterodoxy, let alone a government business contract. But the Church does not run by contracts, it functions by COVENANTS.
Covenantally speaking: in the Church, a state “marriage license” never constitutes a marriage covenant in the Christian sense. BTW: before supreme court rulings, no state was ever obligated to respect any other state’s business/marriage contract.
The whole argument regarding gay marriage as it includes the state business contract, is irrelevant:—you can make a contract with anybody regarding the ownership of anything you own or will own. And as I understand the canons—help me out here, if I miss something—Orthodox jurisdictions are not required to accept any other marriage covenant—accept those rites solemnized in their own jurisdiction—if the bishop says “no.”
In summary: if Elpi solemnizes a gay couple, nobody else is required to honor it any more that they are required to honor Protestant baptisms (or marriages).
And here will be the real deal—make no mistake; this is where this is going—: if Elpi solemnizes rites for a gay couple, will any—or all—bishops and priests in the GOA honor it? Will they be communed?
Furthermore: If a gay couple brings a state “marriage contract”, will Orthodox bishops and priests be apostatized enough to honor that?
When folk are lining up in various lines at the dreadful Judgement Seat of Christ, I will go and find the line with Elpi, the EP, and that other hierarch (who shall not be named), and get in line behind them (who will be in line behind Julian the Apostate). Facing the Lord after He deals with that bunch, my prospects for a favorable outcome will be looking pretty good about then, don’t you think?
But that line way over there I will avoid; the one with all the old generation of praying Greek and Russian Grandmas; I will hail at them at a distance, blow them kisses and be asking them to put in a good word for me. But, the last thing I want to do is stand before His Majesty right after any of them receive their reward. Whoever follows them will be looking for a hole to crawl into, myself included.
Let us give credit where credit is due. With Elpi, there is no guessing what he is all about; he is honest about his dishonesty. Everything with him is… in your face. No one need guess where he is taking things—or trying to take things.
At the same time we would be remiss to think Elpi is in any ways shape or form representative of the whole. In fact, at the base Greek Orthodoxy is still fairly solid. At least in the mid-section. Most priests just try to avoid the freak-show at the top and go about their business of making disciples as the Lord commanded.
On the other hand, in spite of some hopeful statements from the OCA, I still have doubts about the genuineness of those at the top—too many bad omens (e.g. St Tihkon’s Pfizer infomercials, too many political entanglements). Some lead from the front (Elpi, the EP) and others lead from the rear—by stealth, having the little guy do their dirty work for them. This method is far more deceptive and evil in my opinion; and in the end far more damning because its deception runs much deeper. The question is, have they recently experienced a—“come to Jesus moment” among the hierarchs? Or are they just hiding things under the radar until a more opportune time? If I were to venture a guess as to what is happening over there, no doubt their buy-in to the vaccine is taking a terrible toll—not rite-ly discerning the body— in that many are just dealing with their infirmities (Lord have mercy). Shorthanded and infirm, they are unable to bring any other agenda other than what people expect from Orthodoxy.
Obviously, the war is on: the war for the Orthodox Faith in America. Things are not always as they appear, yet in time all things are made manifest and this whole COVID debacle has revealed many things.
It is instructive that many of the individuals featured in the subversion video have links to the OCA or are in the OCA. We tend to focus on Elpi because he, and the people around him, are just to high-profile and blatant. That doesn’t mean we are ignoring what is happening in the OCA, however.
His real name is Apelpisiophoros…
I had to look up the word. “Desperate.” It fits.
Alternatively, what is “laughingstock” in Greek?
He should have a custom bumper sticker: “I trash Orthodoxy for food.”