OR Staff Note: We are passing this along without endorsement. The solution proposed below may not be the best way forward, or even possible. Regardless, the problems pointed out need to be discussed. Especially on Social Media, there is often criticism of the Greek Archdioceses in both the U.S. and Canada. Our site has participated in that, and will continue to do so as long as the upper leadership continues to function the way it does. However, it is critical to recognize that the laity within Greek parishes are not universally on board, at all, with Patriarch Bartholomew and Archbishop Elpidophoros. Many faithful in Greek Archdiocese parishes see the problems, and are just as frustrated with their leadership as the rest of us. May God help us all to a solution.
What we seek is not new. It is what we received. Full Orthodox life, our Greek Orthodox inheritance, and peace before God belong together. They should not be torn apart.
We do not want our children to inherit confusion in place of what was handed down. We want them to receive the Faith whole.
Yet many Greek Orthodox faithful now feel forced to choose between peace and remaining fully Greek Orthodox. They should not have to. Sign at refuge.fillout.com/orthodox. You may sign anonymously if you wish.
In summary, here are our specific concerns:
- Ecumenism & interfaith concerns
- Promotion of ecumenism. Claims that non-Orthodox are part of the Church or that salvation exists outside Orthodoxy.
- Concelebration and joint activities with non-Orthodox clergy and other religions.
- Suggestions of multiple paths to God across religions.
- Authority & ecclesiology issues
- Promotion of the Patriarch as “First Without Equals” instead of “First Among Equals”.
- Recognition and concelebration with the Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU).
- Support of the Council of Crete (2016) and its ecclesiological positions.
- Liturgical & sacramental concerns
- “Protestantization” (organs, pews, altered practices).
- Relaxation of confession and repentance requirements before communion.
- Liturgical changes (e.g. Holy Saturday practices, revised translations).
- Allowing non-Orthodox to receive communion.
- Clergy conduct & canonical violations
- Concelebration with heterodox clergy despite canonical prohibitions.
- Participation in non-Orthodox religious ceremonies (e.g. Hindu temple events).
- Clergy receiving blessings from non-Christian religious leaders.
- Pressure on clergy regarding traditional dress (e.g., rasso).
- Moral & social issues
- Actions or statements supportive of LGBTQ-related practices or civil legislation.
- Involvement with political or activist movements (e.g., protests, public rallies).
- Controversial public theological statements (e.g., about abortion).
- Pandemic-related decisions
- Church closures, changes to communion practices (e.g. multiple spoons).
- Use of churches for vaccinations and limits on clergy issuing exemptions.
- Gender & participation roles
- Introduction or expansion of roles for women (altar service, readers, chanters) is uncanonical.
- Doctrinal concerns
- Statements minimizing traditional condemnations of certain heresies (e.g., Monophysitism).
- Administrative & governance issues
- Attempts to centralize control over church property and governance (charter changes).
- Allegations of Freemasonry influence within the hierarchy and elsewhere (e.g. AHEPA).
One clear example: Fordham shows the kind of Orthodoxy we seek refuge from.
For years this burden has been carried quietly in homes, families, and after church. We have tried silence. It has not brought peace. We have waited. We have hoped. The burden remains.
We are not asking the Church to make room for novelty. We are asking it to make room for what it has already received. We are asking for what is now plainly needed.
We therefore ask with humility that, under hierarchical oversight and within the holy Church, a quiet and orderly beginning be blessed for a trustworthy Greek Orthodox home elsewhere, with sound oversight and clear order, so that what was handed down may be kept whole, lived in peace, and handed on to our children. Sign at refuge.fillout.com/orthodox.
Not a protest camp. Not a loose network. A real church home.
A home with trustworthy oversight, clear rule, sound clergy life, and reverent worship, where what was handed down may be kept whole and handed on in peace.
A mother should be able to teach her children there without shame. A father should be able to bring his family there in peace of conscience. A priest should be able to serve there without trimming the faith to fit the times.
This should not be taken as rebellion, bitterness, schism, or declarations of gracelessness. We are asking for a quiet, sober, and orderly path for those who carry this burden and still desire to remain obedient within the life of the Church.
A wound in the Church is not healed by pretending it is not there. It is healed by truth, prayer, calm, and care.
We are asking for a church life marked by prayer, confession, fasting, reverence, sound teaching, and peace. We want bishops and priests who guard what was given, not bend to fit the spirit of the age. We want a life that is sober without being harsh, warm without being lax, and true to what was handed down.
Such a path would do more than answer a present burden. It would preserve a serious Orthodox life for families and future generations. It would gather scattered faithful who now feel alone. It would help priests labor in peace. It would give the young a place where they can remain, marry, raise children, and pass on the faith. It would let parishes, missions, clergy, families, and supporters find one another and help one another.
The faithful are here already. The need is here already. The life is here already. What is missing is the home.
We are not asking for a protest. We are asking for a home.
These things have been said quietly for years. They should now be said plainly and together, before more faithful are scattered and before more children are formed in confusion.
To add one’s name to such a request is not to join a faction or make war on the Church. It is to ask, peacefully and seriously, that Greek Orthodox faithful be given a trustworthy home where they may keep the Faith, raise children in peace, and hand on what was received.
We therefore ask, with humility, that such a beginning be blessed under hierarchical rule, within the life of the Church, so that what was handed down may be kept whole, lived faithfully, and handed on in peace to our children. May God make straight the path for those who seek only to remain faithful. Sign at refuge.fillout.com/orthodox.
Fr. Sasa Petrovic of the Serbian diocese put it more directly and succinctly about a year and a half ago. A Pan-Orthodox Council is what you’re looking for:
“The question arises for all local Orthodox Churches: How long will this situation be tolerated?” Fr. Saša asks. “How long will they serve together with the clerics of this quasi-church, anti-Orthodox, political, and secularist group? When will a local or Pan-Orthodox Council be convened to judge heretics and restore the canonical order and unity of Orthodox Christians? And the final question is: Are there any red lines for us Orthodox?”
https://orthodoxreflections.com/fr-sasas-warning-elpidophoros-leads-his-entire-archdiocese-to-spiritual-destruction/
Also, as long as GOA parishioners are giving the GOA money (fully knowing its current state of affairs), they are enabling the misbehavior. They are literally funding their own abuse by heretical hierarchs. So … stop giving money and push for a Pan-Orthodox Council.
Question (not a trick question at all): What’s the difference between the Lodge and the Episcopate? Only the garb.
To be aligned with one is to be aligned with both To find yourself cross ways with one is to be cross ways with both no matter where you go…and only one alignment brings eternal felicity, and that is a singular alignment with Christ, there is no room for duplicity. “What shall a man give in exchange for his own soul….?”
Just like in DC, the GOA is the left wing, and the OCA is the right wing, but both are wings of the same buzzard….and that third party is the tail, covering the tracks of the other two.The psyop is the same. The right wing stands around pointing fingers at the left wing, while being slow roasted into thinking nothing is wrong with where they are.
The goal is not just a one world government, but a one world religion (Luciferianism–the hidden agenda of ecumenicism). The persecution is on just like under Rome, but, not out in the open, rather in secret, subversions, and crafts of every kind, enhanced by technology. Every priest should take a ‘season of discernment’; 30 days of prayer coupled with fasting to hear God clearly as to what his near and far term future should look like. If it were me and I had connections into some remote rural area in a foreign land where i could grow my own food, I’d be on the plane tomorrow. Every parish has its strategically placed rat-finks (those who squeal to the lodge…er…oh, I mean the bishop); like the ones in Calhan, CO who squealed on the local priest, who did not fully ENFORCE the mask mandate. The poor ignorant priest got a phone call, and who knows what else. I got this info from a parishioner there. How is this not just like how the Russian Revolution when down, but now, with technology. I never look for this kind of information, it just finds me, and has done so for decades. If I need to know, God makes it happen. Consider yourself warned.
Oh…if anybody is looking for me, I’ll be in that “Secret Place”. Ps. 91kjv.
The quest for the ancient faith begins, not ends with Orthodoxy. Its eternal destination is union with Christ and the family of God unto ages of ages, Amen!
At this point in my life, something really strange has happened. Nearly every experience in my journey now all of a sudden takes on a purpose valuable to others. Been there, done that. All Orthodox priests–especially those who refuse to join the “good ol’ boys club”– need to hear this stuff to know the rules of the game they play by, and not telling you.
In my thirst for the Ancient Church, it all came in stages, ending in Orthodoxy. At first, I joined to an Anglican Church that just defected from the TEC (The Episcopal Church)–for all the same issues the GOA experiences now–coming under a bishop from Nigeria. When the church–by action of the board of trustees– declared their freedom from the TEC, it split the church and the minority pro-TEC crowd left, allowing the majority conservative group to stay in the opulent temple designed by the same architect as the National Cathedral in DC. Immediately, the TEC put forth allegations against Fr. D-A for financial inappropriate things (the board awarded him a stipend to pay for a child’s college education–which was probably not too smart, but it was never an issue with the bishop until the defection). Then the TEC filed a lawsuit in Colorado Springs court against Fr. D-A and the conservative group claiming “IDENTITY THEFT” because the defecting majority maintained the original name (Grace and St Stephen’s) and continued to occupy the facility/temple/school etc.
I personally attended some of the court proceedings hearing the arguments of both sides. The lawyer for Fr. D-A (also Fr. D-A’s DUI attorney) and the defectors built all his arguments around the fact that the building was registered with Colorado Secretary of State as being owned by the 501(c)3 non-profit corporation controlled by the duly elected board of trustees who voted to defect from the TEC and come under the Nigerian bishop.
On the other side, the TEC had at least 2, and often 3 layers going over case after case of where the courts had always ruled the building was owned by the dioceses and that for the current occupants to inhabit it was in essence identity theft, claiming to be somebody they were not. The TEC lawyers had a rolling bookcase about 3′ tall full of case history and while one lawyer would speak the other was digging up case history.
Studying the judge, I kept looking for signs which way he would rule. I was totally fooled. While he asked many more questions of Fr. D-A’s lawyer and made many notes, he ruled in favor of the TEC; all his questions/notes was to give impression of fairness.. Why? What overrules the Non-profit status of a local church? The bishop every time. Since the Civil War, if a church hangs out a shingle–holding themselves out to be–a certain brand, then they have benefited with that association. Now, this only works with a “hierarchial” system of government. With an “independent church”–no hierarchy–the board does actual control ownership.
Another thing: When Fr. D-As lawyer argued the TEC had left its previously stated tenants of faith, it was totally irrelevant BECAUSE, the courts NEVER argue religious doctrine, morality, or dogma. So, all the objections of the TECs stance on homosexuality had zero impact because due to seperation-of-church-and-state, courts never arbitrate doctrine, period. Its not in their jurisdiction.
Fr. D-A and the conservative group were forced to vacate the building so the minority could come back. Note: Fr. D-As group went elsewhere into another building and went under the moniker of St George’s Anglican Church, I helped move what they could take, but, they are still in business.
Yet, when an entire diocese decided to defect, it was accomplished twice–I think–in Fort Worth and in Pennsylvania, I think it was; but the court battle may still be going on. Now you know why the GOA has colossal dioceses. Legally, its easier to control, and control only means 2 things. 1.who owns the building and its name. 2. the clergyman’s credentials.
So, what’s relevant now? If a priest feels compelled to jump ship, he and whom ever follows with him, must find another building, adapt a different name, and get credentials under a different jurisdiction.
But, then there is that hideous spiritual dynamic nobody wants to talk about. That’s something altogether very different, yet, it’s doable.
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This is a very spot-on and praiseworthy petition, Bravo!!!
I used to live in North America and attended Greek parishes in the past and attest to everything said here. One important point missing, is the FULL-ON institutionalizion of Mixed Marriages all across the board.
This is destroying Orthodox membership and family life,
and broadening the path of ecumenism at it’s most maximum capacity!
When you want to destroy something, you target the foundation, the root, and the foundation here is family life, which is the nucleus of society.
How can we claim true healing and remedy taking place, when the most foundational principles have adulterated via the redefinition of the sacrament of marriage?
This broadens Church membership to an ecumenist branch theory of all inclusivity vs. proper intiative membership.
How many other jurisdictions in North America can claim an Archbishop and general leadership that have officially “blessed” for heterodox trinitarian Christians married to Orthodox, to partake of the Eucharist for the sake of unity among family members?
This is called healing?
There’s a commentator bellow that mentioned the mass numbers of resilient GOARCH priests, resisting such blasphemy.
I’m sincerely asking, which of these priests can help today’s children from becoming another pluralistic number, among the hetero-cultural globalist hodgepodge which North America has become?
We can judge a tree by it’s fruit.
What are the primary fruits today of marital life within the Greek Archdiocese? What percentage of marriages are genuinely and canonically Orthodox? Let’s speak numbers and statistics please! What are the retention rates of these marriages and the formation of their children?
Are there any GOARCH priests denying the requests of these mixed marriages? If so please name them here, so we can thank them!
Perhaps renunciation of such officialized ecumenist practice can be a foundational new start torwards healing.
A new beginning can start from setting a proper foundation,m and then maybe we can build the rest overtop.
I have to say, however, that there are also dynamic, Christ centered churches in the GOA, which are anchored firmly in the teachings of our church. Many of us could name the names of priests in the GOA that are holding fast, conducting most of the services in English, and yes, drawing converts. And that could be said in any jurisdiction – it varies. I also have my concerns about the direction the archdiocese is going in a variety of directions. My question is how much does that matter, I am asking with sincerity and not rhetorically, if the home church is holding fast, spiritually healthy, and growing? I think if I did not spend time on line, digging up “dirt,”and kept my head focused on the local church -like honestly not a few parishioners do, I would be ok.
I believe what you say is true, there are parishes focused on the true work of the Church and your question is valid. If a local priest can stay on task–the task that always was–and, not be jerked around by the higher ups, that parish can prosper. And this very much reinforces what I have said before in my analogy of the airline pilot and the tower. If the tower gives an order to a pilot to take a heading that would endanger the plane, the passengers, and the crew and he obeys that bad order–the pilot is held accountable more than the tower in a court of law because he is at the controls, he has the view out his windshield, he has the information of the true conditions around the plane, not the guy in the tower. When a priest can ignore the garbage from the higher ups, and just work the traditions, he is being faithful to his oath and is aligning himself with the Good Shepherd. But, in some cases, the higher ups are making war on these kinds of priests. I have seen it with my own eyes. I attended a GOA two services in a row where a “military chaplain” sent by the bishop showed up (some 6’4″ pushing 2 bills, 50 cents) taking over the liturgy and ordering around the altar, the 30yr tenured priest like he was a first day altar boy, with condescending directives. When this “interloping party crasher” priest, gave the homily, many of the key local parishioners were surfing the internet on their cell phones (told be everything thing I needed to know about what was going on). The GOA has used bouncers to keep priests in line. No doubt, situations differ from location to location. But, I cannot ignore what I saw, and I cannot help believing that to one degree or another this is true to form across the board. Parishioners do not realize the pressures some of their priests are under to take on external agendas, to deviate from the tradition, to violate their oaths of office. The whole mask/spoon/shots debacle demonstrated the bend of hierarchy to become enforcers of things totally unrelated to Church praxis.
And, this abuse of power by a “person of trust” is in the OCA as well. When my own local priest (may he RIP, he took the shots) said, “Want to know what the Church thinks about the vaccines? go to (such and such web address); I will send everyone a link”. First off, this is total heresy! NOBODY SPEAKS FOR THE CHURCH AS A WHOLE UNLESS THERE IS UNIVERSAL CODIFIED AGREEMENT, and that happened only one time in history and that was during the Ecumenical Councils. After that, each and every action of every clergyman is evaluated after the fact in hind sight as being congruent with the Church or not. This is nothing new, there have been apostates before among the clergy, both Arius and Nestorius were hierarchy. Everyone in the ancient world understood this fallibility of man, and why it refused a pope. And then, when I checked out the link, it was a bunch of GOA “theologians” in conjunction with a GOA doctor who said the shots were safe for pregnant women. I went off the rails. The government has now admitted, the shots were harmful. So, where is the apology? Honest men repent. Why did they even go there?? Why did not the position of bishops take the “safe” route and just say, “Not our wheelhouse–see your doctor”. As an insurance professional, at the time, I asked them why would they take on a liability for bodily harm that belonged to the doctors and companies that distributed the shots. Why, why, why? How ever did bishops and local priests ever get conscripted to be enforcers for government and spokesmen for multi-billion dollar corporations (and not even get paid for it)?? if there was not some underlying conflict of interest? I was born early in the morning but, it was not yesterday morning. God bless all the local priests who fly their planes according to the traditions, formularies, and ignore any directive coming down that is inconsistent with the well established tradition and in-conducive to the spiritual, moral, and physical welfare of the folks.
Do you feel the Spirit of Saint Nicholas? Don’t you just want to slap an apostate?! . . . .
Can Christ be in the center of a Mixed Marriage?
There is a court in heaven where sits the Judge whose verdicts can never be overturned. No power, no man, not Satan himself, can withstand His Judgements. Jesus put it this way:
And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Luke 18:3-8
Like any court, any plaintiff lodging a petition must have “standing.” Dear brothers and sisters, each should take account of his/her losses by those who abuse their powers. When you petition in prayer–as St David did with King Saul–with unswerving persistence, the Judge Who sees all things openly, will respond with irrevocable judgements, I have seen it before. But, notice what our Lord says, “will He find faith on the earth?” Will those injured, violated, robbed from, have enough faith to petition as our Lord said? My complaint is persistently before the Lord, He WILL respond by whatever means necessary to bring rectification. I’m betting on it.In my view the petition is just a warning of what is to come if they continue the deplorable.
Lest anyone be mislead, its never an issue of forgiveness, as I forgave them some time ago, and never looked back on that choice of will. Its a matter of allowing it to go on creating more injury to others. But, often God waits, because no one knows how to petition heaven with persistence until the Judge is moved to make His move. If we have not remedy, its our fault because the court of heaven is open to any and all believers who take the name of Christ–its your birthright. God WILL honor the persistent prayers of His people.
Unfortunately, in the era of AI and other dynamics that are geared against Christianity and the Orthodoxy in particular, this request is coming a bit too late to see a change from the leadership above this ethnic faithful bunch.
I attended, years ago, services at the local Greek churches, and I felt like the Indian in “A Flew over the cuckoo’s nest.” after the service, in the hall, because I am not Greek, they did not care to even talk to me. I participated at the Sunday of Orthodoxy service in the Greek church where, after the service, half of the food on the table was not for Lent.
When I read about Greeks considered, in the natality surveys, to be the second population soon to disappear from Europe, that it is even more troubling than the problems of recalibrating the life of the churches, and lifting up the moral of the faithful. How did the Church of Greece allow such a disaster to happen?
Some point out the works of the Archbishop Elpidophoros for not being exactly Orthodox oriented, and I understand that, because I had the chance, in 2006 at Hosios Loukas, to meet the actual Patriarch of Greece when he was the local Archbishop. His behavior toward me left a lot to desire, to say the least. He was at that time a very arrogant, and a full of pride individual. Meanwhile, if he changed his attitude, people would not be surprised by the Archbishop Elpidophoros’s deeds.
In conclusion, any Orthodox church that just delivers a service to the parish without the mystical, moving experience is not going to be successful in competing with secular world and mostly to attract the converts. By the way, I did not see on the list above any point reflecting the desire to grow in the missionary work. Years ago, I tried to involve the local Greek Church in the prison ministry. The answer, again, left a lot to desire… It is all about being in the club, stay in the club and re-paint the walls of the building…
Dearest brothers and sisters: do you believe? Do you believe God hears your prayers regarding the Blessed Church? Are not the dear saints of old with the angels bearing up your cries to the very throne of God? Will not the true Head bring order to the body? Pray, pray, pray for the Refiners Fire; He will purge all on His threshing floor, purify His saints anew and afresh.
Picture with me a tree, a very large fruit tree, like the largest apple tree you have ever seen. Its roots dive deep into the earth–forged by the ages, fed by the blood of saints and martyrs–; its branches full of leaves spread far to the East AND the West, with fruit of various degrees here and there. Now picture. On the ground, creatures, monkey like creatures admiring the tree; seeing the tree as a beautiful place of refuge, a hiding place for all sorts of things contrary to the tree. Some of these creatures take advantage of the tree’s broad shade from the blazing Fire in heaven. Others, climb up in the tree, up higher and higher unseen. Not of the tree, neither were they produced by the tree, they eat the fruit, defecate on its leaves, chew the branches until some die off, parasites they are, blending in with the tree they try so hard to do. Now….picture a great wind coming, pitching the tree too and fro with a violent shaking. Things not of the tree, and dead branches are shaken out, fall to the ground, the creatures scurry away into the forest. Everything that can be shaken will be shaken so the unshakable will remain. If you believe, if you hold fast to the things the fathers have witnessed, stand fast; hold your ground, purify your walk before Him, and see the salvation of the Lord. Some things only God can fix, let us attend, that He will attend what belongs to Him. That which is Holy needs no Uzzah to defend it, or hold it up, or keep it steady. God’s things can well defend themselves. She will heave and puke until the parasites are expelled.
Years ago, at the fall of the Iron Curtain, the Spirit of the Lord said to me, “The reason it was allowed to stand was because the people [of God] gave respect unto it.” It was the people who gave it validation–it could not be taken–, it was offered out of fear. Just say “no”. Or how about “hell no”! I fear not man, beast, nor the police. Let that sink in. When Holy Spirit speaks, I pay attention; “He that hath ears to hear, let him hear….” And, if we cannot hear, in this dark hour what the Spirit is saying to the churches, then we are without remedy because we ignored every remedy sent by the Father of Spirits. Never walk in fear, fear only God. Never bow the knee to any power but God.And for the true Ortho-fam (ly] that means measuring by what was, and always been true. God will sort His Church, the sheep from the goats for His Sheep hear His voice, and the voice of the other, they will not heed.
Take it or leave it, I care not either way; but, I am sensing God’s love for His people, and it is a violent love driving out every idol.
I’m a simple man, with simple thinking. To me here is how simple this is: These poor (beloved) Greek Orthodox Christians are not asking permission to be Orthodox (God forbid), they are asking permission to practice it on their (the bishop’s) property, with their personnel. Nothing more. Work arounds are available, God will not leave His people helpless at the mercy of bandits. Need a priest? Borrow one (or employ the flatscreen priest). Need a place? How about your house, or place of business? Need a father’s blessing for meeting? Call another jurisdiction. That’s what Peter Guilquest did. Before the Antiochians took him on, both the Greek and the OCA turned him down–and the rest is history–totally put the Antiochians on the map. Obviously, Peter et al, was an interesting group to deal with, but, it was pure genius in hind sight breathing new life into a Church gravitating toward being truly indigenous. As for their current leadership, I cannot say–you will know them by their fruit. Try any Eastern European jurisdiction that has a mission operation of any size here. How about a Zoom vespers? Find some body who will work with you. Staying put does nothing. Political machines are sensitive to the right kind of pressures such as nobody shows up, no body contributes. .
Being Orthodox is a covenant: it took a covenant action to get in (baptism and/or chrysmation) and it takes a covenant action to get out. If you were baptized by a duly appointed authority, St. Ignacio’s requirement for episcopal authority is largely already met. To undo the covenant action of being membered into the Church by baptism, it would take another covenant action to undo the first. To get out, one can either renounce it himself, or be excommunicated (which would require a hearing). So, its not a matter of whether or not you can practice your faith, but, where you will do it. If you are tired of explaining the bizarre to the kids, work on a solution.And, really, how will the next generation of kids judge us for what we put up with. I really hope the petition will get some traction, but, I have doubts. We shall see.
The Orthodox faithful that remain in captivity, do so, due to mental entrapment. Orthodoxy is not a building, not a hierarchy, but a way of life. Closing churches was a stupid mistake by the power brokers, because it gave incentive to believers to practice the faith at home, everyday, and in every way. Escape may mean leaving the buildings behind. What was Orthodoxy before there were the fine buildings? Before the full outbuilding of the hierarchy? There is a children’s book worthy of note: “The Miracle of St Nickolas”. It demonstrates how Orthodoxy survived during the Soviet occupation. How many of the “faithful” are really faithful? or just checking the box each week. You can confess to any priest; if you cannot trust yours, find one you can trust. Likewise, if your priest is an honorable man, see to his welfare and that of his family outside the normal taxable channels. Take his wife shopping. Once upon time, I had a young family, was strapped for finances, and a business woman in our church gave me her gas credit card, and said use it when ever you need. Wow, It tormented me to use it, but once I did. Time to get out of the box, and start living the faith regardless of what happens.
If the Fathers of old were with us today, oh…my…..goodness…. THE ANATHEMAS WOULD BE FLYING 24/7!! Yet, we put up with such devilry.
Everything of this world runs on money. Does the Church run on money? If so, its not the Church that Christ built that prevails over the gates of hell. The Russian faithful made it work during the communist era. Again, the Church is not a building, but, the folks that have chosen a way of life based on the ancients, very much grass roots, built from the bottom up, not the top down. While Ignatius said, without a bishop there is no Church, without the folks there is even more so, no Church. How can it be called a church where the faithful are being dragged in a direction they refuse to go in; a direction totally bereft of any semblance with the faith once handed down? Even by St Ignatius’ definition, it is not a Church, but a prison. Welcome to the GOA gulag! And, why are the GOA folks funding their own gulag? Touch of Stockholm syndrome I fear.
The whole objection of a pope is a rejection of a top down, controlled faith. As far as the push towards ecumenicism, its “birds of a feather…” Its all designed to synchronize with the globalist agenda of one world government, and one world religion with it. But, the folks will have none of it.
Did you know Benny Hinn was raised Orthodox, was baptized by the Jerusalem Patriarch. I have never heard him denounce his Orthodox faith, neither have I ever heard of him being excommunicated. In fact, when I attended one of his crusades in Phoenix, Az, the Orthodox bishop sat on the platform, on the first row, at the end of the row, along with all the other pastors of the greater Phoenix area. I clearly recall his dress was different, and the staff in hand made him different than every other minister there. Yes, once even the Orthodox believed in miracles. They understood a “gospel meeting” was to be aside from the liturgy. In a recent video on “discerning the Body”, he nailed our theology of the Eucharist squarely. How much of our heritage are we ignoring? .
I doubt very seriously the GOA would ever grant any escape route from the hell they have created. Church politics is like any politics, the power brokers will do everything in their power to keep control. If a sound exit was provided, they would be out of business overnight. Not going to happen, it would be organizational suicide.
But, what could happen, is the creation of another jurisdiction under a non-English speaking bishop. See here, the Anglicans whole sale vacated the TEC coming under African bishops before creating their own ACNA jurisdiction. In my opinion no English speaking bishop is without a leash to outside interests, especially the OCA. The jurisdiction issue in America is already so totally in chaos–overlapping jurisdictions everywhere; totally not canonical–, what’s undoable with another Jurisdiction, say, under the Serbs? Note, they got around it in the beginning by defining their jurisdiction as “missionary”. In fact, all of ROCOR is fully defined as a “missions” work and never an indigenous work anyway; fully dedicated to providing for the “Russian Diaspora.”. To their credit, they for the most part hold to that definition until an “indigenous church” is established. Of course, its all largely based around church economics. Even under the Anglican model of exodus with episcopal order, the African bishops drew a lot of cash from American churches–but, so what–it worked. Obviously, the issue is always the buildings–the bishop’s office owns every building. If the folks wanted another jurisdiction, they would be starting from scratch with new buildings. But, I think the handwriting is on the wall. No change in behavior in the GOA is foreseeable, and, at what point do you abandon ship when the hole in the bottom of the boat is not reparable because the hierarchy is the hole in the bottom of the boat? And, those who have gone down that road all have guns in their backs if they fail to perform certain outside agendas. Everybody wants a future for their children; but, there is NO future there for anybody. But, here is the problem with asking any other jurisdiction for help: the hierarchy is self-policing. None want to be excluded from the “table” of bishops. Just say, if a Serb bishop would take on ordination and sponsoring refugee churches, he would not only hear about it, he would be excommunicated from the family of bishops, or worse.You never see one bishop criticize another even for the most deplorable. Have I got it pegged? You decide. Bottom line: no relief in sight, unless somebody jumps ship. But, many already have left and are either not going to any church or (God forbid!) go to a Catholic Church or some other church.
As for the GOA in general, it never was a workable model, never was an indigenous church, never had an indigenous identity. The whole Greek thing was/is a sword that cuts both ways. By nature Americans are “lookey loos” yet never being willing to commit. The Greek festival draws a great crowd, but, of most unwilling to give up being American to become a Greek living in America.
In all the talk about purity of praxis, I think I offer a unique point of view. Before becoming Orthodox, I was an Anglican Postulant in the most conservative jurisdiction in the world, the REC under the venerable BP Ray Sutton. Then early in my Orthodoxy, I attended the Ss. Cyril and Athanasius Institute under the now Met. Irenei. I have had formal training by two of the best liturgical minds of modernity. In both studies, I learned about liturgy. Fr. Irenei instituted in my mind something of how the early church thought, and it was with extreme humility. Early on in both east and west, there were at least a dozen differing liturgies each but all working off the same basic structures. In the west, the printing press unified the Catholic and Anglican liturgies, and in the east, over time, all liturgies became nearly identical. But, early on there were variations everywhere–each containing of the local cultural identity. There were originally 3 liturgical roots: the Petrine Rite, the St Paul/St John (became the Galican Rite), and the Liturgy of St James, which became the liturgy of St Basil, which became the liturgy of St John Chysostom……….In my experience, what seemed to me the be the most true liturgy to the eastern rite was in a Roman Catholic Malkite Easter Rite Church in Virginia.
https://holytransfiguration.org/ .
Though I am not a member of GOA, this was a most refreshing petition to read, and a long overdue declaration of abuses. But what, specifically is the call to action, I wonder? For instance, is it a meeting that you want? A formal mutually hashed out proposal? Is there a timeline as to when said changes are to take place? Without spelling out specific next steps, your generalized complaints provide the perfect political cover to ignore you all the more. If I were to receive this as a hierarch, I would toss this aside until you showed yourselves and I knew who I am dealing with. And why the secrecy? Why aren’t your names listed at the bottom? What are you afraid of? And if it is fear of retaliation isn’t that the big elephant in the GOA that perpetuates the status quo you are up against?
I believe the anonymity has to do with awaited pronouncements and developments that are supposed to finalize in the coming weeks.
As for what this petition can sort of try to accomplish imo, at least on the inception level; it can try to gather the common interest and momentum of those sharing the same burden, and hopefully also attract the sympathy of a traditional Hierarch or local Church that could lay the building blocks for a “Greek refuge” or better even, a wider Pan-Orthodox frontier to resist ecumenism in the diasporas.
This would probably require a common confessional, anti-ecumenist witness and jurisdictional infrastructure for it to succeed.
I appreciate this reply. I hope there is someone who will update OR readers on developments as they happen.
As a Christian in the Greek Archdiocese of America i have signed the petition. For too long our hierarchs have gotten away with these travesties.
Amen! And, may I say, with great joy, gratitude, and humility: a traditional American Orthodox Church is already here. It’s the Orthodox Church in America (OCA). We are not perfect. But many of the problems you see in the GOA do not exist in the OCA — or at least, the problems are very much smaller. So please, come and see! We welcome you all — with open arms!
Sounds good to me.
With one exception.
Why does it have to be Greek?
It should be fully American. No more Greek. No more Antiochian. No more Russian.
American. An indigenous American Orthodox Church, perhaps with regional cultural expressions.
https://kalebatlantaprime.medium.com/the-curse-of-jurisdictionalism-by-fr-josiah-trenham-85dc4969fc2a
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=138DHxtsy3s
The quibbles enlisted in the petition are all specific to the minor symbolic actions of Abp. Elpidophoros, posed as affronts to hellenic orthodox pride. The dilemma these offended parties face is how to prop up their inevitably eroding Hellenic ethnic identity while not suffering scandal by the actions a progressive-liberal GOARCH leadership that acts according to different principles on a national and international scale. GOARCH works at cross purposes as an Orthodox Archdiocese trying to satisfy the spiritual/social needs of the conservative Greek Americans who pay the bills, promoting Greek nationalism among ‘diasporic Hellenes’ with Orthodox Christian religious services on Sundays and social events during the week, meanwhile funding the Phanar in its untenable situation in Istanbul, and preaching the central historical & spiritual importance of that administrative center’s perdurance there especially since they aren’t welcome. GOARCH exists not to convert America to the Orthodox Faith but to prop up Hellenism & phanariotism.
The displeasure expressed in the petition derives from the incongruity of GOARCH phanariotism with the conservative values of the authors, which would be better served in Serbian, ROCOR, Antiochian or OCA parishes where their contributions to the American culture war would be taken more seriously. The rub comes in the recognition is that none of those other churches are run by Greeks and they would not be able to preen their feathers in exclusively Hellenic settings where the privileging of Greek language and culture don’t have to make compromises with the rest of the American Orthodox scene and its mixed polity. The proud and self-deluded authors of the screed above want their vassilopita and eat it too. They want a church that compliments their good Hellenic taste (the racial superiority of the ομογένεια), promotes an illiberal social and political agenda (the screed reeks of Republican political orientation), rejects international and local ecclesiastical dialogue with churches beyond the limits of Greek Orthodoxy, and supports the Phanar and the Hellenic dream of the reconquest of Constantinople. The fact that such a mixed bag of goals satisfies no one’s spiritual needs escapes them. They feel GOARCH has become, in a word too liberal but hypocritically do not recognize their own participation in the process of becoming a worldly cultural-political-economic institution rather than a church. They say they want simply a church that is traditional, but they themselves lack the character of traditional people because they are just as entangled in worldly affairs as their Archbishop and the Patriarch he represents.
The demands of this minor conservative group cannot and will not be met by GOARCH. And their Hellenic pride will not be cosseted sufficiently outside it. The OCA is well advised not to get into the business of a ‘Hellenic Vicariate’ because these people will only cause trouble and their hearts are not in the right place. Flattering their ethnic pride will do nothing to make them more amenable. They are snarling curs who act out worse the more you feed them.